World Shia Forum

Identity, Equality, Unity

We condemn Tarek Fatah’s stereotyping and incitement to murder of Shiite Muslims – by Mohsin Jaffer

shiaphobe

Related posts: When Takfiri Tarek Fatah declared the Holy Prophet’s beloved uncle an infidel – by Irfan Qadri

Takfiri Tarek blames Sunnis for Hazrat Ali’s murder and Shia genocide – by Irfan Qadri

How would you describe someone distributing the antisemitic hoax ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ (purporting to describe a Jewish plan for global domination) in Nazi Germany when Hitler and his security forces were slaughtering six million European Jews (The Holocaust). Of course, that would tantamount to enabling further violence against innocent Jews.

Well, that is exactly what Tarek Fatah did only two days ago when he distributed a highly inflammatory video in which a few Shia youths were shown insulting the Prophet Muhammad’s wife Ayesha.

It is shocking to see Tarek Fatah using his Twitter and facebook page to promote the video clip (screenshot attached) that can only promote greater hatred against Shiite Muslims, and was duly reprimanded by both Sunni and Shia Muslims.

I do not want to reproduce that atrocious clip. Needless to say, it does not represent Shia practice in the mainstream. I also note that the clip was produced and distributed by an organization (MEMRI – the Middle East Media Research Institute, with headquarters located in Washington, DC) which claims ‘to inform the debate over U.S. policy in the Middle East’ and for ‘timely translations of Arabic, Persian, Urdu-Pashtu, and Turkish media, as well as original analysis of political, ideological, intellectual, social, cultural, and religious trends in the Middle East’. I think MEMRI directors really need to set their priorities right instead of enabling further Shia genocide in Pakistan and other countries by distributing misleading and provocative videos.

Returning to Tarek Fatah, given his active interest in Pakistan, Middle East and the history of Islam, how could he remain oblivious to the extremely adverse implications of the video for Shiites, particularly for Shiites of Pakistan, who already face a slow-motion genocide. At least 19000 Shias have been killed in Pakistan by Saudi-sponsored Deobandi-Wahhabi militants because the killers consider Shiites as a deviant sect outside the pale of Islam; a Jewish (Sabai) conspiracy against Muslims. Fatah claims to be a friend of Jews while at the same time enabling hatred and massacre of ‘Jewish agents’ Shiites. See the irony?

Refer to this clip of Al Qaeda/Lashkar-e-Jhangvi leader Malik Ishaq spreading hatred against Shia Muslims in Kabirwala, Pakistan (19 June 2012):

1 jabl e istiqamat malik m ishaq sab in kabeir wala 19 jun 2012

Is Fatah any different from LeJ’s Malik Ishaq?

Both are referring to isolated incidents that relate to criticism of certain historical personalities (by fringe elements) to incite hatred against all Shias without any distinction. Malik Ishaq is just more up front in his incitement. Usually this incitment leads to mass murder, especially in Pakistan. Pakistani expats, both of Shia and Sunni sect must take serious note of this incitment by Tarek Fatah.

As recent massacre of 22 Shia and 3 Sunni Muslims at Babusar pass by LeJ-Taliban extremists reveals, this sort of incitment is used to mass murder Shia Muslims and those Sunni Muslims who stood to protect their Shia brothers.

Under the prevailing circumstances, what made Fatah do something so reckless. Does he not realize the consequences of his act?

Here’s a response to such provocations by the LeJ-Al Qaeda leader Masroor Nawaz Jhangvi (son of Sipah-e-Sahaba founder (killed) Haq Nawaz Jhangvi|) who nakedly abuses all Shias by making them responsible for attacks on Ayesha:

By promoting incitement, Fatah shares indirect responsibility for the deaths of Shias who are daily killed by extremists – especially in Pakistan.

Overseas Pakistanis must take notice of this incitement and approach the law enforcement authorities, media and human rights organization and ask them to explore legal action against Fatah and expose his hate agenda against Shia Muslims.

They should write letters to TV channels, newspapers, community and government organizations to bar Fatah from presenting his selective discourse on human rights and his camouflaged hatred of Shias.

We recall that when pro-democracy activists were being brutally crushed by Saudi and Pakistani mercenaries in Bahrain, Fatah showed his true sectarian colours. For him, the entire issue was not the brutal suppression and killing of pro-democracy activists by the Khalifa regime – most of the victims being the indegenious Shias who have third class status in their own land. For Fatah, the violence in Bahrain was only about Shias killing Pakistani-Army drafted Baloch mercenaries. Using abusive methods as diversionary tactics, Fatah tried his best to distort the discourse on the pro-democracy struggle in Bahrain.

One or two selective instances of sporadic mob violence were misused by Fatah to make such spurious arguements. The news and facts by diverse media outlets, Amnesty International, Nickolas Kristof, Robert Fisk were conviniently ignored. Any attempt to engage with him on this resulted in being abused as Iranian Agents, Baloch killers, Arab-want-to-be and Anti-Jewish.

Sectarianism and racism: The dishonest narratives on Bahrain – by Hasnain Magsi

As for the video clip being used by Fatah, I would request Shia organizations in Europe, Canada, Australia, US and especially UK to investigate whether this distasteful and condemnable event was even staged by Shias. Such tiny events may have been staged to facilitate the ongoing Shia Genocide in Pakistan and also persecution and killing of Shias including and not limited to Indonesia, Malaysia, Bahrain, Iraq, Qatar, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Morocco and Turkey. These are all areas where Shias are being killed and targeted. If this video is staged to assist in incitment against Shias worldwide, legal recourse for hate crimes and slander may be explored against Tarek Fatah. If this is an isolated incident, it must be condemned by Shia Organizations worldwide as well as exploring incitment to murder charges against Fatah.

Shia Muslims have different views about historical incidents. This is common in all religions and social movements and Fatah should know.

The Prophet Muhammad’s wife Ayesha is immensely respected by Sunni and Salafi Muslims while Shiite views about her are varied because of her opposition to and battles with the fourth Muslim Caliph Ali. There are clear instructions by Shiite clerics that Ayesha and other holy figures of Sunni Islam may be respectfully criticized based on historical evidence, however, insulting or abusing Ayesha and others is declared haram (impermissible) by Shia religious scholars.

In his own book, Fatah talks precisely about historical differences between Sunnis and Shias and why Muslims must be open to diverse opinions and uphold the values of free speech in accepting criticism of their respective beliefs. Some of his historical accounts can even be viewed as sanitized, selective and apologetic from the Shia perspective. Still his work on topics such as moderation in religious practice, separation of Church and State and criticism of regressive Hudood practices are both valid and constructive.

What is problematic from his media output in general and the promotion of this clip in particular is his insensitive and simplistic slanders on Shia Muslims and presenting the extremists amongst Shias as on par as Salafi-Deobandi extremists. Such views are naive at best and sectarian at worst. Perhaps he was influenced to spread these kind of false binaries during the time he lived in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. For many Muslims, both Sunni and Shia, Saudi Arabia funds Salafism that is intolerant of both sects and their cultural and spiritual practices.

It’s therefore no surprise that in a subsequent tweet, Fatah rationalized Shia genocide by blaming it on Shiiites practice of insulting holy personalities of Sunni Islam. How similar to Abu Musab Zarqawi, Malik Ishaq and Ahmed Ludhianvi!

It does not matter what Fatah’s religious background is or whether he comes from a Sunni, Shia or Salafi background. That is his personal business. The problem is with how Fatah (mis)uses his media presence to defame and incite murderous hatred against Shia Muslims. In this instance, his instrument is a clip where an unknown person with clearly malicious intent is provoking 6-7 small children to criticize one of the wives of the Holy Prophet nearly fourteen hundreds years after her death. This practice does not reflect mainstream Shia opinion and could very well be a fake event staged to incite Shia killings in places like Pakistan.

For someone who talks of everything under the sun and especially on wide ranging Muslim issues, Fatah cannot be oblivious to the implications of this incitement. The practice of being specifically critical of some caliphs and some of the wives of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) is a fringe practice. Similarly the practice of cursing and abusing the Holy Prophet’s family and Shia and Sufi icon Imam Ali ibne Abu Talib is a fringe historical practice. This practice was instituted by Imam Ali’s political rival Caliph Muawiya ibne Abu Sufyan and ended with the Omayyad era. Moderate Muslims from both Shia and Sunnis generally quote the non-specific Quranic verse “May God’s blessings be removed from the nation of oppressors” to register their protest against acts of injustice committed by both Muslims and non-Muslims.

The Shia fringe that engages in this type of specific criticism – essentially invoking Lanaa i.e. revoking God’s blessings from certain acquaintances of the Holy Prophet and some of his latter wives – has been discouraged by the mainstream Ithna Ashari (Twelver Shias). Similarly the extremist Salafi and Deobandi sect that equates such criticism as blasphemy and punishable by death and pogrom represents a minority within the Deobandi and Salafi sects. However, due to the patronage of rich oil countries in the Gulf, this tiny fringe has become very powerful all over the world. Since the military dictatorship of General Zia in Pakistan, Salafi and Deobandi militias often kill Shias as collective punishment due to inflated and widely circulated actions of a fringe that engages in criticism. It is important to provide the context of this issue – something that would be well known to someone with the scholarship and media presence like Tarek Fatah.

This is all the more reason that the insensitive act by Fatah casts serious doubts on his otherwise commendable efforts for inter-faith harmony. We appreciate his work when he holds up the mirror to Muslims of all sects and asks them to confront their intolerance against other faiths and discard anti-Semetic conspiracy theories.

Pity then that when it comes to Shias who are being targetted by extremists of the muslim faith, Fatah is no different than a Saudi-funded Salafist Mullah!

Update: Apparently Tarek Fatah apologized in the comments section but the very next day attacked the very forum (Word Shia Forum) by stereotyping it as an Iranian blog. It’s a sorry state of affairs.

tf

33 comments on “We condemn Tarek Fatah’s stereotyping and incitement to murder of Shiite Muslims – by Mohsin Jaffer

  1. Mujahid Kazmi
    August 29, 2012

    Shia Aur Hazrat Ayesha AS- maulana ishaq urdu

    Shia view about hazrat ayesha by allama jawad naqvi

  2. Shahid Ali
    August 29, 2012

    Tariq Fateh is a legend in his own mind who suffers from deep inferiority complex. He revels in degrading Islam, Muslims and his home country Pakistan, the country that enabled him to migrate to Canada. He is basically a “house nigger”. I do not use the “N” word with a racial connotation but only to describe Tariq’s state of mind. Everybody knows what type of “services” house niggers provided for their masters__ spying on their own people, looking down upon them, hallucinating to be superior to the rest of their kind and making their women available for their masters carnal pleasures!

    • Kaneez e Fatima
      August 30, 2012

      “he revels in degrading Islam and Muslims…”

      PRECISELY.

    • Guest
      August 30, 2012

      How did Pakistan “enable” Tarek to migrate to Canada? What a load of nonsense

      • Shahid Ali
        September 4, 2012

        There is a long list of items that can be listed as “enabling” factors. Most prominent among them is cheap, next to nothing education. Do you understand, retard!

  3. Tarek Fatah
    August 29, 2012

    Let me take this opportunity to offer my sincerest apologies to all my Shia Mislkm friends, brothers and sisters.

    I’ve realized my posting the YouTube video of Fadak TV of London was inappropriate considering the situation in Pakistan and Syria.

    My objective was to expose the folly of these South Lebanese hate mongers, not to put any Shias in harms way.

    Now I recognize why some of you are do upset, but considering the video is still on YouTube and the makers are unrepentant, so to blame me as the villain is silly.

    Nevertheless, please accept my sincerest apologies. I am sorry.

    Tarek Fatah

  4. Mujahid Kazmi
    August 30, 2012

    @Tarek Fatah
    The Protocol of the Elders of Zion too is still available on Youtube and the makers are unrepentant. Will you circulate that too? What a shallow apology!

  5. Kaneez e Fatima
    August 30, 2012

    This is why the Zionist media loves Tarek Fatah so much. He is putty in their hands and serves their agenda/interests extremely well.
    He should take a moment and ask himself just how exactly is he helping the Muslim cause…that is, if he truly gives a damn? And why does he ALWAYS emphasize the negative, which only adds fuel to the fire? Can he offer solutions and advice, instead of empty rhetoric and criticism?
    Has he ever bothered to reflect on why the Muslim nation is in the condition it is in today…. what the reasons possibly could be?
    Or is he just a paid lap-dog, truly, as he is proving himself to be under the glorious media lights and cameras…?
    If only he would use his intellect for better use to help his fellow brethren!

  6. Guest
    August 30, 2012

    Stop blaming MEMRI for your problems. Either the event happened or it didn’t. If it did, MEMRI has nothing to apologize for. If you want to condemn the actions of the people in the video, by all means do so, but shooting the messenger is counterproductive and a waste of time.

  7. Mujahid Kazmi
    August 31, 2012

    Guest or whoever you are: This post is about Tarek Fatah, not MEMRI. Good diversion tactic.

  8. Shahid
    August 31, 2012

    Tarek Fatah was part of PNA movement that was used by General Zia-ul-Haq and the CIA to depose and hang Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. Now he is pretending to be all secular. How can someone who supported General Zia, the person who did the most damage to Pakistan by spreading drugs, guns, extremism claim to be for secular and democratic values?

    Is it any surprise that Fatah shares his former paymaster General Zia’s hatred for Shias

  9. Nazish Bukhari
    August 31, 2012

    Tarek’s apology is even worse than his shia hating comments on twitter. Let me get this logic straight. So there are some idiots from Memri or South Lebanon or whatever. They are using 8 young children to say bad things about Bibi Ayesha.
    And 200 million shias all over the world should be held collectively responsible?

    What rubbish

    The post explains this very well. 99.999999 % of shias do not believe in the practice of being disrespectful to Bibi Ayesha. I have heard many shia aalims and community leaders explicitly condemn this practice without any ifs or buts.

    Tarek used his twitter account (8,000 + followers) and facebook account (max followers reached) to spread this dubious and fringe video and know he is being facetious and saying “Don’t shoot the messanger”

    Does he know that Lashkar-e-Jhangvi killers use similar excuses.

    Yesterday a shia judge was brutally shot down in Pakistan. Sad to say but I agree that Tarek Fatah shares some responsibility for this horrible crime.

  10. Ali Syed
    August 31, 2012

    Tarek Fatah is a third rate opportunist.

    He will stoop to any low because in the profession of journalism, he is a bottom feeder.

  11. Usman
    September 1, 2012

    Do you really think that the problems in Pakistan is because Tarek Fatah posted a video on his twitter/facebook account? If this is the case, I am sure, the man who can offer sincere opologies can also post several videos showing complete harmony among Shias and Sunnis, and are you sure that this action will halt the Shia genocide? You people are no more better than the killers who don’t think but only available to blame and act.

  12. Pingback: When Takfiri Tarek Fatah declared the Holy Prophet’s beloved uncle an infidel – by Irfan Qadri « World Shia Forum

  13. Pingback: Takfiri Tarek blames Sunnis for Hazrat Ali’s murder and Shia genocide – by Irfan Qadri « World Shia Forum

  14. Faiq
    September 6, 2012

    How would you describe someone distributing the antisemitic hoax ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ (purporting to describe a Jewish plan for global domination) in Nazi Germany when Hitler and his security forces were slaughtering six million European Jews (The Holocaust). Of course, that would tantamount to enabling further violence against innocent Jews.

    Well, that is exactly what Tarek Fatah did only two days ago when he distributed a highly inflammatory video in which a few Shia youths were shown insulting the Prophet Muhammad’s wife Ayesha. https://worldshiaforum.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/we-condemn-tarek-fatahs-stereotyping-and-incitement-to-murder-of-shiite-muslims-by-mohsin-jaffer/

    We condemn Tarek Fatah’s stereotyping and incitement to murder of Shiite Muslims – by Mohsin Jaffer
    worldshiaforum.wordpress.com
    How would you respond to someone distributing the antisemitic hoax ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ (purporting to describe a Jewish plan for global domination) in Nazi Germany whe…
    Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · August 29 at 7:31pm
    Ali Abbas Taj and Mujtaba Hassan like this.

    Sabah Hasan No surprises here. Mr. Fatah has remained true to the agenda he has been given.
    August 30 at 7:21am · Like · 1

    Yasmeen Fatima ‎Tarek Fatah is a member here. Maybe he can respond.
    August 30 at 5:03pm · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi He won’t.
    August 30 at 5:23pm · Like · 1

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur What agenda?
    August 30 at 5:43pm · Like

    Áine Ní Dhonnchadha Shame on you, Tarek Fatah, how dare you claim to oppose the genocide of the Shi’a and simultaneously pour kerosene on the fire!
    August 30 at 6:15pm · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi Pays the bills
    August 30 at 6:18pm · Like

    Áine Ní Dhonnchadha I’d rather starve than have dead children on my conscience my direct actions. Wait till someone murders the Shi’a in his name, see how he sleeps at night.
    August 30 at 6:19pm · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi Ditto. But that’s TF and his ilk. Blame the victim, get yourself a TV show and a book deal. Call other Muslims fundamentalists because they have the temerity to disagree with you .
    August 30 at 6:21pm · Like · 1

    Áine Ní Dhonnchadha I have to admit that as an Ismaili I get trigger-happy with accusations of heresy, what with us being the Ahmadis of the olden days. Now eyes are off us *mostly* but there’s a reason we keep our mouths sewn shut 90% of the time and it ain’t all because of “the batiniyya”.
    August 30 at 6:23pm · Like · 1

    Saf Rizvi Tarek Fateh is in the making …of Canada’s own Salman Rushdie ….He is inherently a Jew of the worst kind….
    August 31 at 7:01pm · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi dude… anti-semitism.. not cool.. seriously not cool especially when you’re upset about the discrimination of a minority.. kind of contradicts your stance.. and did i say it’s not cool..
    August 31 at 9:18pm · Like · 1

    Áine Ní Dhonnchadha Whoah with the anti-Semitism, there. My *partner* is Jewish.
    about an hour ago · Like · 1

    Tarek Fatah Aine, you got to praise Sal for his honesty. Others are less forthcoming and will adopt deviousness and lies to do the dirty work for the ayatollahs of Iran.

    The slander against me on this list should’ve alerted you about the mettle of these men.
    about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 1

    Tarek Fatah Aine, you ‘shamed’ me about denying the Shia genocide. What evidence did you have that made you utter such a visceral reaction?

    Does it not speak to the feebleness of reasoning that allows you to slander me without a shred of facts to back your case? Reflect on that.
    about an hour ago via mobile · Like

    Irfan Qadri Only a habitual stereotyping person could stereotype everyone in this thread as antisemitic only because of one person’s insensitive comments. In the meanwhile we know what you did last summer! You remain not only a ShiaPhobe but also antisemitic. Here’s your past which you want to hide: http://pakistanblogzine.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/is-tarek-fatah-really-a-friend-of-jews/

    Is Tarek Fatah really a friend of Jews?
    pakistanblogzine.wordpress.com
    Picture source: http://jdlcanada.wordpress.com/picturesvideos/ There is enough evidence to suggest that notorious Shia-phobe Tarek Fatah was deeply anti-Israel and anti-Semitic until 2006 after whi…
    about an hour ago · Edited · Like ·

    Irfan Qadri This is Mr. Fatah’s reaction to pro-democracy protesters in Bahrain. Remember he stereotypes every Shia as a proxy of Iranian Ayatullah and every Sunni as murderer of Hazrat Ali (r.a.).

    Editor’s note: The following post is based on recent tweets by Tarek Fatah reflecting his views on the current uprising in Bahrain. It must be noted the each and every word in this post has been written by Tarek Fatah, however, for better clarity and logical flow, some tweets have been joined and reorganized. The actual exchange at Twitter can be read at the following two links:1, 2. It is indeed sad to see a man, who has done excellent work to expose and confront anti-Semitism, himself engaged in shameful stereotyping of Shia Muslims.

    ……….

    Do you believe I suffer from ShiaPhobia?
    by Tarek Fatah

    What makes you so excited at the thought of Arab civilians in Bahrain lynching your own countrymen? Are your a Shia Pakistani?

    What’s with Canada’s Shia Muslims from EastAfrica. They’ve become enslaved to the Iranian $ Bahrain Mullahs and hostile to Indo-Pakistanis

    Just pissed off with Pakis who believe they are Nadir Shah’s left testicle and Bin Qasim’s Arab anus.

    Bahraini freedom? You gotta be kidding! Your freedom is only for Arabs, not dark-skinned Asians. Racism never works.

    Most Pakistani Shias on twitter back the Iranian-backed Bahrainis beating anyone with a Pakistani background.

    Hate Crimes against #Pakistanis in #Bahrain as Arabs beat up wounded labourers: A bloody ‘revolution’ in Bahrain.

    Why are you silent on atrocity by Arabs in Bahrain against Pakistanis? Why are you silent on the atrocity by Arabs in Bahrain against Pakistanis? Why would a dead Pakistani count less to you than a shia Arab Bahraini?

    Shia Pakistani serving the Iranian murderous regime that has one million dead in its hands. Disgraceful. Have you no self-respect?

    Bahrain to deport 90 Lebanese Shias for alleged ties to #Hezbollah and #Iran.

    Problem with Shias like you have worshiped Khomeni to the extent, his murderous blood-soaked regime has blinded you. Million died. Any Muslim who cares more for his sect deserves to be the blind who couldn’t see Darfur Genocide.

    Bahraini people? I doubt you consider the 2 Bangladeshis to be as Bahraini as you being Pakistani. Your sensitivities are pretty selective. you have no issue with Pak’s 60-year occupation of Balochistan, but are ok with Arabs lynching Paks.

    Pak mercenaries? Baloch have been there since 1638. U folks need to taste Arab racism, not dinars. How do u know all Baluch side with ‘despot’? And why shld it matter whether it is Khameniei or Khalifa? Why do u back the Iranians? You do know about the Baloch? Those dark-skinned guys no one in Pakistan wants to know. That is your defense of lynching? Has it come down to the indignity Pakistanis will find a justification for their own humiliation?

    Are you from Bahrain? If not, what is your interest about a place that treats you like garbage. Of course you are not from Bahrain. Your interest in that country is purely sectarian, not humanitarian, so stop the charade.

    Faking Arab or Persian identities can be injurious to one’s mental health. I am referring to …those who find Honour in the insults that are heaped on them by any Iranian or Arab or Turk…shameless, lapdog Pakistani happy he is spit upon by an Arab or Iranian. Please understand I have nothing but contempt for Pakistanis faking Arab or Persian ancestry. Its what u do with names; do we ‘buy’ into this fake heritage or reality; we are all Hindu converts. So tired of Pakistanis faking either a Persian or Arab ancestry by denying their Indianess. Wearing last names to ensure they are not Pakis. The difference is I know who I am; an Indian born in Pakistan, not a Persian leftover by an invader nor an Arab. Personal!!! I wdn’t touch Ahmedinejad’s apologists with a 10-foot pole. Pity, the twit has so many slaves in #Pakistan. I am a Pakistani Canadian. I don’t get my orders from the King or the Mad Ahmedinejad.

    There are Pakistanis who if pissed on by an Arab would say “its drizzling”. If an Iranian spit on them? Pakistanis are so obsessed with religion, they haven’t got a clue abt racism, when they face it or use it.

    I am wondering at your thrill at seeing Pakistanis being urinated in their mouths by Arabs.

    Arabs treat you like dogs in the Gulf, yet for shia tribal reasons u serve the very people who spit on u, Shame.You should go and join the Bahraini shias. Once they detect your Pakistani ancestry, they’ll educate you about your worth.

    You accuse me of using White Supremicist language from South Africa and then say “what cliches”? You seem to be suffering from a serious bout of inferiority complex that forces you to be a lapdog for Hamas or Hezbollah.

    Only a visceral hatred of the Jew can explain why a Pakistani would be ok with Ayatollahs killing 100,000 Iranians but get worked up on Israel’s attack on Palestinians? What sort of a mindset allows you to look the other way

    Shia Pakistani serving the Iranian murderous regime that has one million dead in its hands. Disgraceful. Have you no self-respect? Yes, I’ve seen the tens of thousands of Pakistani Shias march against Ahmedinejad & Khamenei. Yeah , that’ll be the day! Maybe you guys should stop spitting on America’s face and ned this obsessive ant-Americanism if you would care for US help.

    Do u believe I suffer from ShiaPhobia? That is such petty nonsense.

    (Sources of Tweets: 1, 2)
    about an hour ago · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur Inherently a jew of the worst kind ????/
    What does it mean? What Jews have to do in this rubbish ..
    about an hour ago · Unlike · 1

    Saf Rizvi I once told Tarek Fatah on his face that he is trying to wear the stinking shoes of Salman Rushdie with similar evil intent ……Tarek Fatah is more a JEW than A Muslim…..the man needs to be ignored like one would do to any anti social… ….evil Conspiracy is his bread and butter for last many years….
    about an hour ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi Stop with the anti-semitism already.
    about an hour ago · Unlike · 2

    Irfan Qadri ‎Saf Rizvi Jews are as worthy of respect as are Sunnis, Shias, Ahmadis and Salafis, or anyone else.
    about an hour ago · Like · 1

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur Stinking Ideas of Mullah’s will not work any more.
    about an hour ago · Like

    Tarek Fatah What a unscrupulous liar this Irfan Qadri is! He takes a series of tweets, patches them together so they appear as an op-Ed by me and then posts it on this list.

    Why don’t you show the URL where I am supposed to have written this composite article you quote.

    On Bahrain in particular, the fact that Pakistani Shias were less concerned by the brutal massacre of Pakistani Baloch by Arab Shias was deeply offensive. I still maintain that Iran’s pulls the strings in the urban Karachi-based Urdu-speaking Shias who then act as if they were more loyal to Qom than their own neighbors. Those who support a brutal Iranian regime with the blood of tens of thousands of Iranians, should drop their head in shame. None of you supported the Green revolution in Iran, but got excited about Bahrain where you defend the principle that non-Arab Muslkms are a lower class of humans and thus not worthy of Bahraini citizenship.

    Dare to discuss without waving the kufaar sword if Ahmedinejad? I doubt it.
    about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 1

    Ali A. Naqvi Blaming the victims. As always
    about an hour ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi Irfan Qadri …..Comanding Respect is related to actions and choices of an Individual and not by his cast creed or religion…..The good jews are mentioned in the Holy book and they stand good even today….what about the conspiring ones ????
    about an hour ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Saf Rizvi – really stop it with the anti-semitism. I’m getting bored of it. It’s stupid.
    about an hour ago · Like · 1

    Tarek Fatah Ali Naqvi, are you not the person who supports the fatwa of death against Salman Rushdie by your mass murdering ayatollah Khomeni ? If not, will you denounce your Imam Khomeni? I doubt if you have that courage or the integrity.
    about an hour ago via mobile · Like

    Irfan Qadri In my eyes antisemitic Ahmadinejad is no better than a ShiaPhobe Tarek Fatah.
    about an hour ago · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur What about the conspiring shias? They are the worst of their Kinds.
    about an hour ago · Unlike · 1

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – straw man arguments mate. Stick to the programme.
    about an hour ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi Ali A Naqvi …..opps did not realise that you are here for entertainment …..
    about an hour ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi safi – obviously not , if I have to put with lazy anti-semitism.
    about an hour ago · Edited · Like

    Irfan Qadri I denounce Khomeini’s fatwa against Rushide and also denounce Tarek Fatah’s ShiaPhobia.
    about an hour ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – did you spread that video?
    about an hour ago · Unlike · 1

    Saf Rizvi Irfan Qadri ….do not mix the Phobia of truth with Shia Phobia…..!!
    about an hour ago · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur I wonder if any one of you have read chasing the mirage. I doubt if Tarek Fatah is Shiaphobe .
    about an hour ago · Like

    Baz Kew Please stop your antisemitic remarks Saf Rizvi. As Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib said “Remember that people are of two kinds; they are either your brothers in religion or your brothers in mankind.”
    59 minutes ago · Unlike · 3

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Mir Max Abbas Talpur nah he’s not a shia phobe… he’s an overdraftphobe.
    59 minutes ago · Edited · Like

    Irfan Qadri In fact Tarek Fatah spread the video, then apologized on WSF page itself, then went on Twitter and said WSF is an Iranian blog. What a liar and hypocrite he is!
    59 minutes ago · Like · 1

    Saf Rizvi Guys Tarek Fatah Blocked me in 2008….:)….
    59 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi Baz Kew….Kane and Able were also brothers!!!…
    58 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi Well Irfan Qadri – let him defend himself now. Tarek Fatah are you responsible for the dissemination of that video?
    58 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi The man is pure evil …he would neither defend nor appologise….!
    56 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri ‎”Now you’re looking like a fox on the run. And you’re faster than a shot from a gun.”
    56 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi Well. We’ll take his inability to answer, and inability of his supporters to defend him as a sign that they kind of lost the argument.
    55 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri https://worldshiaforum.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/t121.png?w=547


    worldshiaforum.files.wordpress.com
    54 minutes ago · Edited · Like ·

    Irfan Qadri https://worldshiaforum.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/t01.png?w=547


    worldshiaforum.files.wordpress.com
    54 minutes ago · Like ·

    Saf Rizvi Surprising …isn’t it… there is not one Muslim supporter of Tarak Fatah ….
    53 minutes ago · Like

    Tarek Fatah No, the video was disseminated by your most favoured Shia radicals from South Lebanon on their London network called Fadak TV.

    Of course you will deny that what they say about Aisha on that TV netwrok is never mentioned in Shia homes and only the Pink Panther would believe you.

    My fault was that the video available to millions in the Middle East on YouTube, was shared by me on Twitter and Facebook.

    Later I realized that the timing was inappropriate and I even apologized to shias, but that was not enough for the rabid dogs in heat who take their orders from Iran’s puppet masters.

    I am willing to admit that it was not the right time to share that message, but the message of the video is there for all to see. Can you stop your shia brethen from deleteing that video from Youtube oir will you blame the Jews and America?
    48 minutes ago · Edited · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi See Asad Hasan Kizilbash, this is the problem with the base dishonesty of the so-called defenders of human rights you seem to pick up to add to this forum. Is Tarek Fatah actually doing anything to help the Shia? No.

    He thinks it’s our own fault that we’re getting killed. He spreads the same propaganda that the AQ types use to justify our genocide- that we’re all secret agents for Iran.

    Why is he here? What’s the excuse for trying to recruit someone like that to help?
    49 minutes ago · Edited · Like

    Irfan Qadri And your further circulated it? Will your circulate other hate literature too only because it’s already published by someone else? And then present it as the reason for Shia genocide? Rationalizing massacres by contributing to them?
    49 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri Ali A. Naqvi: I disagree with you. Tarek Fatah has as much right to be here as anyone else.
    48 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – maybe, but what’s your excuse. considering you package yourself as a great humanist? You didn’t think of the consequences?
    48 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Irfan Qadri – accepted
    48 minutes ago · Like

    Tarek Fatah The Shias of Pakistan are being killed by Sunni radicals, but you dare not protest them; you send your kids to protest outside the US consulate for ‘al-Quds’ day.
    47 minutes ago · Like · 1

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – straw man. We’re talking about YOUR actions. Why did you do it?
    46 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – You’re supposed to be saving people from the crimes of fundamentalism – but you might have had a hand in delivering people to their deaths. How is this even consistent?
    45 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri This is what he wrote: “Shia Muslims curse Sunni heroes; Sunni Muslims in return slaughter Shias”. He is rationalizing and justifying Shia genocide by Takfiris (not Sunnis) while at the same time distributing the anti-Shia hate video. Hypocrite!
    44 minutes ago · Like

    Tarek Fatah Here is a Shia scholar saying Aisha killed the Prophet Muhammad.

    44 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri Yet another straw man! I can’t even laugh now.
    43 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – more deflection. Why did YOU do it? What was your purpose?
    43 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi A confirmed Hypocrite and an Apostate !!…
    43 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Saf Rizvi – You have no no right to call anyone an Apostate . You’re not a Prophet or Imam.
    42 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri Saf Rizivi: You know what? This cunning hypocrite will use your insensitive comments to stereotype all of us.
    42 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – What possible good would come of you spreading the things you did? I’m sure the AQ types would find lots of this quite easily and do it themselves. Why DID YOU HAVE TO HELP?
    41 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi Ali A Naqvi ….and Irfan Qadri ….You guys seems to have only concern and that is …’This Discussion’…and you seems to know all about the rights and wrongs as well….great going !!….
    39 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri You have contributed to murder of innocent Shia judge in Quetta, and the 6 poor vegetable vendors. How can you sleep in peace, Tarek Fatah?
    39 minutes ago · Like · 1

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur ‎Saf Rizvi what is Al-Quds day and why every muslim need to become retard on that day?
    38 minutes ago · Unlike · 1

    Saf Rizvi Irfan Qadri ….I know Tarak Fatah for the last five years or so…he blocked me four times on FB and elsewhere… so don’t bother about his stereotyping you guys due to my comments….You be concerned about winning this discussion and I am concerned about calling a spade a spade….
    36 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi So let me guess. The great defender of human rights Tarek Fatah , who appears on TV to tell the world how Muslims need to discover human rights, who writes columns and books on the subject, who runs lecture tours on changing Islam to be more humanitarian – is responsible for spreading material that could be classed as AQ propaganda and is ENTIRELY unconcerned about the deaths his actions may lead to?
    36 minutes ago · Unlike · 1

    Ali A. Naqvi Any of Tarek’s fans got an explanation – your hero seems to have issues answering this.
    36 minutes ago · Like

    Tarek Fatah Here is your Shia scholar who you should talk to rather than bitch about me.
    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/520813
    36 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – that scholar can defend his own actions. You are responsible for your own.

    Defend your own.
    35 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri Yet another deflection. This man thinks that everyone who disagrees with his ShiaPhobia is a fond of Shia clerics. LOL
    33 minutes ago · Edited · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎71 comments and not a reasonable explanation for why he did it.
    32 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri Bolo, uncle, kuch tau bolo, kuch aur ShiaPhobia, kuch aur zehr…
    32 minutes ago · Like

    Tarek Fatah AQ propaganda? Are you kidding me? I have spent most of my childhood listening to Shias cursing Omar in not so polite language and saying rather unpleasant things about Aisha.

    This is the what was broadcast on Fadak TV. Its still available on-line and no Shia has demanded it be taken down. Have you guys asked YouTube?
    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/520819
    30 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi Naqvi sb….It is a sheer waste of time expecting a reasonable explanation from someone like Tarak who blatantly conspires to create fitna Among brothers in faith and get paid for it….
    29 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – ahh back to blaming the victims
    29 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi but still Tarek Fatah WHY did you do it? You knew that it had repurcusions. This doesn’t explain your motivation – which frankly contradicts your stand as Great Warrior of Human Rights.
    28 minutes ago · Like

    Tarek Fatah Are you blaming the Jews now for this video?
    28 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri He is not alone. Many Al Qaeda, Taliban, LeJ types agree with him: http://youtu.be/UXOpog6a6hs

    Shia Kafir Harami Mutta Ki Paidawar Hai by Maulana Masroor Nawaz Jhangvi [DB]
    http://www.youtube.com
    Maulana Masroor Nawaz Son of Ameer e Azeemat Maulana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi [RTA] in LaL Masjid Jhang City on 26-Jan-2012
    27 minutes ago · Like ·

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – more deflection.. for a clever man you’re having a hard time understanding the concept of indiviual responsibility. Why did YOU decide to spread it? What’s your motivation?
    26 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri No, we are blaming you! Jews don’t have anything to do with any hypocrite who contributes to Shia genocide. Still not over with your camouflaged anti-Semitism, a Saudi residual in you?
    25 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi Hold up Irfan Qadri – let the dude explain his reasoning for this.
    24 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi Oh you realy don’t know ?….His motivation is hefty payment for spreading evil fitna….and ofcourse the residual part plays too….
    24 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri ok ali a. naqvi
    23 minutes ago · Edited · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi Here’s the thing Tarek Fatah , there’s three reasons that you could have done this :

    a) you think that kind of content justifies shia killing

    b) you are ignorant of the effect it would have and thought you were helping highlight something

    c) you think that it doesn’t matter as long as it proves you right on what you’ve said about muslims/Islam and you don’t care how many bodies you leave in your path

    …maybe you could enlighten us to alternative readings of your actions?
    21 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi Ali A Naqvi …Tarak Fatah has nothing to do with Shias or Sunnis ….there is one and only reason …..this man is against Muslims and gets paid for his evil fitna mongering…..
    17 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri add a fourth option too: (d) Attention whore, with little regard for implications of his actions or words, as long as some money and media attention can be extracted.
    17 minutes ago · Like · 2

    Irfan Qadri Saf Rizvi: This man is equally vile against Jews. Don’t be fooled by his pretension of love for Jews. He can sell his own… for a few dollars and a bit of media attention. Unscrupulous, from head to toe!
    14 minutes ago · Edited · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah = even secularists who believe in “enlightenment” thinkers being the be all and end all would have said

    “That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others……for such actions as are prejudicial to the interests of others, the individual is accountable” J.S Mill.

    By that measure, as a supporter of liberty and equality, you seem to have failed a basic test of morality of the very society you seek to bring to forth for Muslims.
    14 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi His ideal is Salman Rushdie the attention whore of all times …he imitates him and even drinks the same brand…..
    13 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi I’m off .. for a few hours lets see ow he squares that one.
    12 minutes ago · Like

    Tarek Fatah The Sunni mullah’s rant you posted claiming it came as a result of my posting shows your bad faith in this discussion. That sunni rant mentioning the Shia abuse of Aisha is dated Jan 2012, while my sharing of it was in August 2012.

    The more I read your stuff you confirm my fears of you being puppets on a string dancing to the tune of Khomeni.

    All you can do is slander others, hate Jews, piss on the West while living there, and spread hatred towards me because you have assigned this duty.

    Feel free to spread as much hate as possible; it’ll catch up with you one of these days.

    No one who has the ability to read my books or even my weekly columns will buy into your tirades against me or your label that I am anti-Shia. Well that is outside the circle of fake Syeds, Naqvis, etc and other flea-market make-belief Arabs ashamed of their Indianness. They might and they are more than welcome to swelter in the toxic mix of hatred and inferiroty complex.
    12 minutes ago · Like · 1

    Irfan Qadri Ali A. Naqvi: amend: “…you PRETEND TO seek to…”
    12 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi Irfan Qadri ….he has all the ingredients of Abu Sufian….
    12 minutes ago · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur ‎//that is outside the circle of fake Syeds, Naqvis, etc and other flea-market make-belief Arabs ashamed of their Indianness. //

    Awesome , @ Tarek Fatah
    9 minutes ago · Like

    Saf Rizvi Irfan Qadri…..The Jews think they are using him and he thinks that he is fleecing his Jew masters….this is a bad bad world of evil fitna mongers you see…:)….
    7 minutes ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri Tarek Fatah: Blatantly dishonest: You wrote: “The Sunni mullah’s rant you posted claiming it came as a result of my posting shows your bad faith in this discussion. That sunni rant mentioning the Shia abuse of Aisha is dated Jan 2012, while my sharing of it was in August 2012.”

    — This is what I had written: “He is not alone. Many Al Qaeda, Taliban, LeJ types agree with him – youtube link”

    What I said was that “you have contributed to murder of innocent Shia judge in Quetta, and the 6 poor vegetable vendors. How can you sleep in peace, Tarek Fatah?”
    7 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi ‎Tarek Fatah – yes, all well and good but :

    “while my sharing of it was in August 2012.”” < why did you do this?

    We still don't have your explanation of why you thought that was morally acceptable for you to do. What did you did you hope to achieve?
    5 minutes ago · Like

    Ali A. Naqvi hey Mir Max Abbas Talpur .. maybe you can explain why Tarek thought it would be a fantastic idea to share that video? What good did he think he could achieve from doing so? He seems to be unable or unwilling to come to terms with it

    Baz Kew ‎Tarek Fatah Re.”Feel free to spread as much hate as possible; it’ll catch up with you one of these days.”

    Pathetic coming from someone caught red-handed peddling shia-hate videos. I expect to hear weasel-like words blaming everyone except himself for his own actions.

    Irfan Qadri As Mohsin Jaffer said: “One or two selective instances of sporadic mob violence were misused by Fatah to make such spurious arguements. The news and facts by diverse media outlets, Amnesty International, Nickolas Kristof, Robert Fisk were conveniently ignored. Any attempt to engage with him on this resulted in being abused as Iranian Agents, Baloch killers, Arab-want-to-be and Anti-Jewish.” https://worldshiaforum.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/we-condemn-tarek-fatahs-stereotyping-and-incitement-to-murder-of-shiite-muslims-by-mohsin-jaffer

    Therefore, any logical questions to Tarek will result in us being stereotyped in similar terms.

  15. Faiq
    September 6, 2012

    As a Sunni Hanafi Muslim, I condemn Tarek Fatah’s insult against Hazrat Abu Talib (May Allah be pleased with him), the benefactor and beloved uncle of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

    On Twitter, two days ago, Tarek declared Hazrat Abu Talib (R.A.) as an infidel (Kafir).

    Tarek Fatah @TarekFatah
    @ahadhussain @abdulnishapuri Abu Talib was not a Muslim. What is the issue? He never converted to Islam. That is a fact. https://worldshiaforum.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/tarek-fatah-apostatizes-prophet-muhammads-beloved-uncle-by-irfan-qadri/

    Tarek Fatah apostatizes Prophet Muhammad’s beloved uncle – by Irfan Qadri
    worldshiaforum.wordpress.com
    As a Sunni Muslim, I condemn Tarek Fatah’s insult against Hazrat Abu Talib (May Allah be pleased with him), the benefactor and beloved uncle of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be … Continu…
    Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · Monday at 7:21pm

    Hasan Murtaza Are you joking ? Tarek fatah didn’t invent the Abu talib kufr argument…its the standard Sunni position.
    Monday at 7:23pm via mobile · Like · 2

    Irfan Qadri You did not bother to read the post. As a Sunni, I feel pity for your ignorance.
    Monday at 7:25pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri Not unlike millions of peaceful Sunnis in Pakistan and other countries, I too condemn massacre of innocent Shia Muslims at the hands of Saudi-sponsored Takfiri Salafi-Deobandi militants in Pakistan. It is a known fact that majority of peaceful Sunnis reject violence and terrorism by Takfiri terrorists of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Sipah-E-Sahaba, Taliban etc.

    However, according to Tarek Fatah, all Sunnis must be blame for the massacre of Shias right from the murder of Hazrat Ali (R.A.) to the current Shia genocide in Pakistan. This is not only worst form of stereotyping but also cruelly insensitive. https://worldshiaforum.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/takfiri-tarek-blames-sunnis-for-hazrat-alis-murder-and-shia-genocide-by-irfan-qadri/

    Takfiri Tarek blames Sunnis for Hazrat Ali’s murder and Shia genocide – by Irfan Qadri
    worldshiaforum.wordpress.com
    Not unlike millions of peaceful Sunnis in Pakistan and other countries, I too condemn massacre of innocent Shia Muslims at the hands of Saudi-sponsored Takfiri Salafi-Deobandi militants in Pakistan…
    Monday at 7:27pm · Like · 1 ·

    Fez Meghani ‎Hasan: I disagree. I went to Sunni-based Islamic classes in Dubai; have some Sunni friends. Most hold Abu Talib as Muslim. There are certain positions in all interpretations that believe otherwise, which is sad though.
    Monday at 8:23pm · Edited · Unlike · 3

    Hasan Murtaza Ignorance of what exactly?
    Monday at 8:22pm via mobile · Like

    Nigel Abel Irfan Qadri, are you related to Mumtaz Qadri, assassin of the late Salman Taseer, Governor of the Punjab, just wondering since you share your last name with him.
    Tuesday at 3:08am · Like

    Sabina Shahid Abu Talib never converted but this never effected their relationship.
    Tuesday at 9:55am · Like

    Rizvi Amir Abbas Syed questioning the faith of the protector of Islam who fought against the enemies like Abu Sufian….
    this is a shameful propaganda by Khwarijis who were expelled by the son of Abu Talib.
    Anyway it doesn’t make any difference now…
    but look at the fanatics who behead in the name of islam and look at their source of ideology… it will trace back to Khwariji ideology.
    Tuesday at 2:58pm · Edited · Like · 1

    Asad Hasan Kizilbash Although I do not agree with Tarek Fatah on many of the issues, but to blame him for being influenced by Wahabi or Salafi teachings will be unfair and far from any truth.

    Actually there two ways of looking at religious histories. One is to believe in every thing one is taught by clrics from one’s own sect and the other is to read it through a neutral & a secular perspective.

    I was taught Islamic history as a child from the Shia perspective. I was taught that all the Biblical Prophets, including Adam, were Muslims. Secondly, that all the direct ancestors & close family members of Prophet were Muslims as well. Don’t be surprised if they are even portrayed as almost Shia Muslims.That would be an example of history from my religious sect’s point of view. Some of it probably differs from the history taught by other sects of Islam.

    Then there is the Secular perspective. Theory of Evolution has almost discarded the Biblical story of Adam & Eve as just that – a story. Coming to Biblical prophets, not all of them were even monotheists what to talk about being Muslims. Historically, Judaism evolved in to the monotheistic religion and was not always so. My understanding of a Muslim is that it requires not only belief in the unity of God but also a belief in its Prophet as well. Thus the later Biblical prophets can be defined as monotheists but cannot be called Muslims, as they could not & did not believe in any future Prophet Muhammad.

    Historically it is a fact that Hazrat Abu Talib was not only Prophet’s father-figure, but remained his protector, benefactor, and his guardian. No doubt Prophet treated him like his father. Hazrat Abu Talib’s son, Hazrat Ali, was the first child & male to accept him as a Messenger of God. Hazrat Ali was his closest aide, confidant, and almost like a son.

    But, historically, at least according to secular history, it is indeed a fact that Hazrat Abu Talib never converted to Islam, at least officially or publicly. But, just because he remained a non-Muslim does not mean that he was not a good person. One does not have to be a Muslim to be respected for being a decent person. Being the guardian & the protector of Prophet, there is every reason for Muslims to pay him homage. To be a non-Muslim, infidel, or a kafir is not necessarily a certificate for being some how evil. And, I can assure you that Tarek meant it only from the historical perspective and not because of any evil intent.
    Tuesday at 9:37pm · Like · 4

    Khalid Thathaal Abu Talib never converted to Islam, he died as a “kafir”, he did help the prophet ut that does not change the fact that he was not a muslim, being uncle and helpful tothe prophet does change the fact. In return, prophet “adopted” Ali because Abu Talib was a poor guy.
    Tuesday at 10:07pm · Like

    Asad Hasan Kizilbash ‎Yasmeen Fatima
    Tuesday at 10:30pm · Like

    Rizvi Amir Abbas Syed Wow its a shame that people are still discussing the faith of bu Talib and reluctant to condemn the brutal Terrorists funded by the Khwariji kingdoms!!!!
    Tuesday at 10:46pm · Like

    Asad Hasan Kizilbash ‎Rizvi Amir Abbas Syed, I think you need to join ‘Stop Shia Genocide in Pakistan’, which is totally dedicated to the condemnation of Salafi barbarians.
    Tuesday at 10:55pm · Like

    Rizvi Amir Abbas Syed is God a Muslim?
    Tuesday at 11:03pm · Like

    Khalid Thathaal Allah is Muslim, Jaweh is jew and so on
    Tuesday at 11:12pm · Like · 1

    Fez Meghani Debating Abu Talib’s Muslimness, to me, is laughable. He was more Muslim than the entire Muslim world combined in its present day and form.
    Tuesday at 11:16pm · Like · 5

    Asad Hasan Kizilbash Historically the Kharjite sect is extinct by now. The only remnants remaining can be the Ibadis. It is the dominant form of Islam in Oman and Zanzibar. Ibadis can also be found in Algeria, Tunisia, East Africa as well as Libya.

    Although regarded as a branch of ancient Kharjites, and according to Wikipedia, “Believed to be an off-shoot of one of the earliest schools, Khawarij, it is said to have been founded 60+ years after the death of the prophet Muhammad. Historians as well as majority of Muslims believe that the denomination is a reformed Islamic sect, formally known as the Khawarij or Kharijites. However, Ibadis continue to deny any but a passing relation to the Kharijites (Khawarij), and point out that they merely developed out of the same precursor group; and whilst they may hold some beliefs in common, they and the Kharijites were never one and the same.”

    The Taliban/Al Qaida/ Deobandis/ Salafis/Wahabis, are technically or historically not Kharjites. Although, there are a number of similarities between them & both happen to be an extremist form of an Islamic sect.
    Tuesday at 11:17pm · Like

    Hasan Murtaza Who the hell are any of us to debate whether Abu Talib was a Muslim or not?

    The fact is that while he was alive, the Quraish could not touch Muhammad. After he died, their persecution became intolerable. He was the only thing standing between Muhammad and his enemies, until one Ali bin Abu Talib grew old enough to do the same.

    http://www.ismaili.net/histoire/history03/history312.html
    Yesterday at 1:57am · Edited · Like · 2

    Hasan Murtaza But Irfan, what does any of this have to do with Tarek Fatah? He didn’t invent this argument by himself. Its a well known canard.
    Yesterday at 1:58am · Edited · Like

    Rizvi Amir Abbas Syed Tarek Fatah has never ever criticized Zionism… he says what he has been asked to say by his funders.
    Yesterday at 5:17am · Like

    Rizvi Amir Abbas Syed If you believe in Quran then you’ll have to accept that Islam started from Adam. Allah had been in use before the Islam. Muhammad’s parents and most of Banu-Hashim tribe were followers of One and only God (except Abu-Lahab). Even Muhammad, before his Prophet hood followed the same. They were not Pagan and worshipers of other deities like the Banu-Umaiya Arabs.
    Therefore it is really stupid to ask about the faith prophet’s parent and foster parents.
    Yesterday at 5:32am · Like

    Asad Hasan Kizilbash ‎Rizvi Amir Abbas Syed, it is quite possible as there existed pockets of monotheism in the Arabian Peninsula during the time of the Prophet. Actually, number of Hazrat Khadija’s relatives belonged to the Judeo-Christian sect known as Hanifs. But, like I stated earlier, being a monotheist does not necessarily mean being a Muslim.
    Yesterday at 9:02am · Like

    Ismail Butera Abu Talib was the keeper of the Kaaba, was he not? Idols were kept there, no? Perhaps he was a closet monotheist.
    Yesterday at 6:46pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri LOL @ Rationalists resorting to dubious literature to prove someone’s kufr (infidelity). Look at your ownselves and look at your fatwa of Kufr at the benefactor of Muhammad (pbuh). Next you will use the same dubious Hadith literature to prove Ahmadis Kafir, Shias as Sabai Yahudi and Barelvis as Mushrik. Nonsense.
    Yesterday at 6:52pm · Like

    Shaheryar Ali Thats not for progressives to decide! This question should be asked to Abu Hanifa and Sunni clerics who declared these dubious literature to be a matter of sunni consensus. One has to be careful in citing literature or tradition. Saying that Sunni Imams of Fiqqah and Hadith consider Abu Talib as infidal is reporting a fact. Its not a judgement that we consider it true or false! For rationalists most of the religious literature is historically dubious. These questions should be put to religious community. Why the consider benefector of their prophet to be infidel. I suggest you do a little exercise. Send a questionier to Jamaia Binori Town, Jamaia Ashrifa, Jamia Naeemia, Javed Ahmed Ghamidi, Syed Munawar Hassan of Mansoora, Prof. Sajid Mir. All shades of non Shia clerics and ask them whats their position on Islam of Abu Talib and you will get the answer.
    Yesterday at 7:03pm · Unlike · 1

    Irfan Qadri Couldn’t agree more. Scratch these borderline SufiPhobes, ShiaPhobes, AhmadiPhobes a bit, there’s a fatwa baaz Mullah hiding in each one of them. Progressives!
    Yesterday at 7:08pm · Like

    Shaheryar Ali In sunnies the reports in favour of Abu Talib are “dissenting voices”, not representative of mainstream. I can recall for example only Shibli ( if my memory is not playing tricks on me , who reports that all reports on Abu Talib are zaeef both in favour or in opposition so better to give him benefit of doubt— although his own students disagreees) and Tahir ul Qadri . But majority sunni opinion consider him infidel though they suggest he should be given respect.
    Yesterday at 7:09pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri ‎Shaheryar Ali I am not really concerned about the contentious and dubious nature of the Hadith literature. I am concerned how uncritically the so called Progressives such as Tarek Fatah and others in this thread are sure that Abu Talib (R.A.) is an infidel. No wonder Pakistan is a Takfiri State, in fact Takfiri Republic of Pakistan TRP.
    Yesterday at 7:16pm · Like

    Shaheryar Ali i am not familiar with this terminology but i say its the religious mindset
    23 hours ago · Like

    Shabina Hussain Irfan Qadri perhaps you are referring to the sectarian violence against Shias in a Sunni majority Pakistan. Also the excuse that Hazrat Abu Talib was not a Muslim, is the apparent justification to do so. Right? Well my question for such divisive individuals/forces is: Were parents of Prophet Muhammad Muslims? Or that of Sahaba?
    23 hours ago · Like · 1

    Irfan Qadri ‎@Shabina Hussain: There’s no Sunni-Shia sectarian violence in Pakistan. Takfiri terrorism by Takfiri Deobandi-Salafis against Shias and Sunnis does not represent Sunni Islam.
    22 hours ago · Like · 3

    Irfan Qadri To me the very debate to prove Takfeer of someone today (Ahamdis for example) or 1400 years ago is irrational and insensitive.
    22 hours ago · Like · 1

    Shabina Hussain It’s good you are trying to isolate the divisive and violent elements. Way to move forward..
    22 hours ago · Like

    Áine Ní Dhonnchadha It also seems sort of a blow against the Shi’a, since Abu Talib’s name is most often referenced in the form “Ali b. Abi Talib”. Am I being oversensitive?
    20 hours ago · Like · 1

    Fez Meghani According to mystical dimensions within Islam, Abu Talib is referred to in The Holy Quran by his real name: Imran.
    20 hours ago · Like

    Shaheryar Ali yep in mystic discourse
    20 hours ago · Like

    Sabah Hasan No Áine, actually you have hit the nail right on the head … it is not so much against Abu Talib (a.s) the person, but Abu Talib (a.s), the father of Ali (a.s) in an environment where not many fathers were known at all.
    11 hours ago · Like · 1

    Hasan Murtaza This video Tarek posted to his wall looks like it is staged (it also comes from MEMRI). The kids are being pushed to sing. Balloons at a shia gathering? Come on. Anyone who knows shia majlises knows there is no hesitation in criticizing anyone, but it is usually done with wit, style and subtelty. The “shias” look like sunni or wahabi Arabs. I think it is a fabrication.

    More generally, Tarek Fatah is a A-grade idiot though. Somehow he has retreated into the arms of the right wing. The way he can speak like a progressive but then suddenly something inside him snaps and he becomes a self-righteous bigot.

    As a hadith says, “I swear by the One other than whom there is no deity, one of you may do the works of the people of paradise right up until there is only an arm’s length between him and paradise, but his destiny overtakes him, so he does the actions of the poeple of the fire and enters it. And, verily, one of you may do the works of the people of hell until there is nothing between them and hell except for one arm’s length, but his destiny overtakes him, and so he does the works of the people of paradise, and enters it.”

    Tarek had a long career as a leftist, progressive. Now he has become right wing. And comfortably so. C’est bizarre.
    6 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1

  16. Faiq
    September 6, 2012

    As a Sunni Hanafi Muslim, I condemn Tarek Fatah’s insult against Hazrat Abu Talib (May Allah be pleased with him), the benefactor and beloved uncle of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

    On Twitter, two days ago, Tarek declared Hazrat Abu Talib (R.A.) as an infidel (Kafir).

    Tarek Fatah @TarekFatah
    @ahadhussain @abdulnishapuri Abu Talib was not a Muslim. What is the issue? He never converted to Islam. That is a fact. https://worldshiaforum.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/tarek-fatah-apostatizes-prophet-muhammads-beloved-uncle-by-irfan-qadri/

    Tarek Fatah apostatizes Prophet Muhammad’s beloved uncle – by Irfan Qadri
    worldshiaforum.wordpress.com
    As a Sunni Muslim, I condemn Tarek Fatah’s insult against Hazrat Abu Talib (May Allah be pleased with him), the benefactor and beloved uncle of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be … Continu…
    Like · · Unfollow Post · Share · Monday at 7:21pm
    2 people like this.

    Zulfiqar Ali I think we do not need to be as emotional.As for history tells Tarek is right.We should i think argue that it does not matter if some is Muslim or Not as for as being good or bad human being is concerned.
    Monday at 7:29pm · Edited · Like

    Irfan Qadri I am amazed how easily you condone Takfiri views and unitary version of history. I did not expect this from you.
    Monday at 7:30pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri Not unlike millions of peaceful Sunnis in Pakistan and other countries, I too condemn massacre of innocent Shia Muslims at the hands of Saudi-sponsored Takfiri Salafi-Deobandi militants in Pakistan. It is a known fact that majority of peaceful Sunnis reject violence and terrorism by Takfiri terrorists of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Sipah-E-Sahaba, Taliban etc.

    However, according to Tarek Fatah, all Sunnis must be blame for the massacre of Shias right from the murder of Hazrat Ali (R.A.) to the current Shia genocide in Pakistan. This is not only worst form of stereotyping but also cruelly insensitive. https://worldshiaforum.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/takfiri-tarek-blames-sunnis-for-hazrat-alis-murder-and-shia-genocide-by-irfan-qadri/

    Takfiri Tarek blames Sunnis for Hazrat Ali’s murder and Shia genocide – by Irfan Qadri
    worldshiaforum.wordpress.com
    Not unlike millions of peaceful Sunnis in Pakistan and other countries, I too condemn massacre of innocent Shia Muslims at the hands of Saudi-sponsored Takfiri Salafi-Deobandi militants in Pakistan…
    Monday at 7:30pm · Like · 1 ·

    Zulfiqar Ali Is there any evidence to support that he converted?
    Monday at 7:31pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri Plenty of evidence, only if you bother to read the post, and watch the multiple part video and numerous volumes of books on Iman-e-Abu Talib (R.A.). But really, is this a matter of debate? Should it be? To issue fatwas of kufr and then defend such fatwas?
    Monday at 7:32pm · Like

    Zulfiqar Ali I do not condone ( or at least try )something just bc some one I like or ortherwise.I think people can be good or bad in any religion.
    Monday at 7:33pm · Like

    Zulfiqar Ali It is possible that i have not read. As I said I don’t care if he was or not.Quran itself says that people who do good irrespective of their relgion, will be rewarded on Qayamat day.So why Muslims have to claim the ownership of Jannat.
    Monday at 7:35pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri That’s off topic. I remain opposed to Takfirism and those who defend Takfir due to historical or ideological contentions.
    Monday at 7:36pm · Like

    Ahmad Waqass Only some Shia sources call him muslims as per my info.
    Monday at 7:52pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri LOL @ some Shia sources. Here comes the Takfir Salafist mindset. You think Dr. Tahir ul Qadri is a Sunni source, and the dozens of sources he cites are Sunnis? To what limit will we go to defend Takfiris? It’s getting tragic, than funny.
    Monday at 7:57pm · Edited · Like

    Ahmad Waqass I hate takfiris more than you and there is nothing ‘takfiri, in it. These are historical facts which many sentimental muslims can’t digest.
    Prophet’s parents and family wasn’t muslims. That is a fact. but same Tahirulqadri and co says otherwise.
    They weren’t even adherents of ‘Islam’ of that era i.e. christianity.
    I am sure you know that as per muslim belief Christianity was the islam before announcement of prophethood by Prophet Muhammad.

    Abu Talib died very early. Honestly I never read that he was converted.
    Monday at 8:04pm · Edited · Like · 3

    Ahmad Waqass Shia (re)written history has many such fabricated stories . A lie remains a lie even if it is repeated 1000 times.
    Monday at 8:04pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri ‎’Ahmad Waqass Shia (re)written history has many such fabricated stories . A lie remains a lie even if it is repeated 1000 times.’ — LOL
    Monday at 8:08pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri My guess was right. I am dealing in this thread with a Takfiri Salafist who denigrates versions of history told by Sunni Sufis and Shias. It’s the same mindset which is killing Shias in Pakistani streets and the Nazi silence around is all too familiar.
    Monday at 8:17pm · Like

    Ahmad Waqass BTw how do you label everyone as takfir?
    Takfiri means someone declaring others as heretic due to difference of opinion or sect.
    And Abu Talib is considered just like Abdullah his brother. They were by birth non believers.
    Monday at 8:17pm · Like

    Ahmad Waqass Here is a Hadith in Saheeh al-Bukhari:

    Volume 5, Book 58, Number 222:

    Narrated Al-Abbas bin ‘Abdul Muttalib:
    That he said to the Prophet “You have not been of any avail to your uncle (Abu Talib) (though) by Allah, he used to protect you and used to become angry on your behalf.” The Prophet said, “He is in a shallow fire, and had It not been for me, he would have been in the bottom of the (Hell) Fire.”
    Monday at 8:17pm · Like · 1

    Ahmad Waqass ‎Irfan Qadri just making some good sentences and using some words like salfi, takfir, etc doen’t mean that you are right.
    We have hadith as evidence. What do you have as evidence to reject?
    Please present something except moaning.
    Monday at 8:18pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eu1rrixUMw

    Iman e Abu Talib by Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri ایمان ابوطالب از ڈاکٹر طاہرالقادری
    http://www.youtube.com
    CD.No.25 Visit http://www.MinhajCDs.com/ to buy. Iman e Abu Talib by Dr. Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri شیخ الاسلام ڈاکٹر محمد طاہرالقادری کے خطاب ایمان ابوطالب سے …
    Monday at 8:21pm · Like ·

    Ahmad Waqass Another hadith from Sahih Bujkhari
    [When Abu Talib was on his deathbed, the Holy Prophet (saww) went to him while Abu Jahl was sitting beside him. The Holy Prophet (saww) said to him:

    “O Uncle! Say LAA ILAAHA ILLALLAH – an expression with which I will defend your case before Allah (SWT)”. Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin Umayyah said, “O Abu Talib! Will you leave the religion of Abdul-Muttalib?” They kept saying this till Abu Talib’s last statement was, “I am on the religion of Abdul-Muttalib”. So the Holy Prophet (saww) said, “I will keep asking Allah for your forgiveness unless I am forbidden to do so”. Thereupon, verse 113 of Surah al-Tawbah was revealed, in which Allah (SWT) says, “It does not befit the Prophet and the believers to ask Allah’s forgiveness for the pagans, even if they were their near relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of Hellfire”.]

    (Sahih al-Bukhari)
    Monday at 8:21pm · Like · 1

    Ahmad Waqass I am not going to any external links . Tahirulqadri is not higher authority than Hadith. I have quoted two ahadees. and both from Sahi Bukhari /
    Monday at 8:22pm · Like

    Ahmad Waqass There is no authentic hadith to comfirm his conversion
    Monday at 8:24pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri He is citing Sahih Hadith and citing sources too. Takfiris are only interested in finding reasons for Takfir, not the other way round.
    Monday at 8:25pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri I simply don’t have time or interest to start a Munazra. Ciao.
    Monday at 8:26pm · Like

    Ahmad Waqass Merey Bhai Takfir ki defintion perh lo pehley.
    It doesn’t make difference to Islam if he was muslim or not. It definitlety bothers emotional shias . just like you can see Barelvis arguing that Prophet’s parents were muslims. Though hadees states otherwise.
    Monday at 8:27pm · Like · 3

    Ahmad Waqass ‎2, 4 ultey seedhey lafz sekhein to unki definition bhi seekhtey hain.
    Monday at 8:27pm · Like · 3

    Ahmad Waqass Narated By Abu Said Al-Khudri : I heard Allah’s Apostles when his uncle, Abu Talib had been mentioned in his presence, saying, “May be my intercession will help him (Abu Talib) on the Day of Resurrection so that he may be put in a shallow place in the Fire, with fire reaching his ankles and causing his brain to boil.” (Sahih Bukhari Kitabur Riqaq)
    Monday at 8:29pm · Like

    Ahmad Waqass Same hadees suggests that Fatima(Wife of Abu Talib) was muslim and faced many difficulties.
    Monday at 8:30pm · Like

    Ahmad Waqass Tahirulqadri didn’t cite any thing to reject the hadees or counter it.. stop befooling yourself and people.

    Yeh maazhabi logun ka ajeeb drama hai key in ki pasand key khilaaf baat ho to sath hi in key secular , liberal, rational dialgue mer jatey hain aur in key ander ka muslman jaag jata hai.

    There are 100s of such blogs and videos on YT condemning the writers for quoting facts which weren’t pleasant for emotional fellows.
    Monday at 8:34pm · Edited · Like · 1

    Ahmad Waqass and keep in mind TF is not a takfiri. he never issued a fatwa against any sect rather has been fighting the hatemongers takfiris and islamists.
    Monday at 8:35pm · Like

    Saqib Tahir Abu Talib never converted, it is just a wild fantasy purely based on emotions. Tarek is absolutely right.
    Monday at 8:37pm · Like · 1

    Ahmad Waqass yeh shia Bhaiyun ko kon samjhai yeh to Sipa sahaba ju terha kufr key fatwey ley ker aa jatey haui aur mazey ki baat hai doosrun ko takfiri kehtey hain halankey fatwa e kufr khud laga rahey hain
    Monday at 8:38pm · Like · 1

    Irfan Qadri LOL @ Rationalists resorting to unscientific Hadith literature to prove someone’s kufr (infidelity). Look at your ownselves and look at your fatwas of Kufr at the benefactor of Muhammad (pbuh). Next you will use the same dubious Hadith literature to prove Ahmadis Kafir, Shias as Sabai Yahudi and Barelvis as Mushrik. Nonsense. Who are we? Islama Kay Thaikay Daar?
    Yesterday at 7:02pm · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur Rationalist society of Pakistan is Muslim ?
    Yesterday at 7:15pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri Salafist Deobandi Muslim to be precise. LOL @ Rationalists.
    Yesterday at 7:18pm · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur what’s wrong with salafist deobandi ?
    Yesterday at 7:19pm · Like

    Irfan Qadri The Takfiiri mindset; he is Kafir, he is not etc. Fatwas of Kufr. My friend Shaheryar Ali has left a good comment at another thread.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur More precisely , I want to know about what’s the issue of Prophet Uncle being Muslim or not?
    In Islamic history Prophet himself was a non-muslim before revelations and Gabriel visited to him in the cave.
    Was Prophet’s Father a Muslim ?
    23 hours ago · Like · 1

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur Asking as a Rationalist and not as a Muslim.
    23 hours ago · Like · 1

    Irfan Qadri And how do you know that? Scientific literature?
    23 hours ago · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur ‎:)
    23 hours ago · Like

    Shaheryar Ali thats why i strongly insist on these kind of useless debates. Because every thing which you have said are contentious within Islamic theology. For me there is no objective methodology of judging these things and these are useless topics. For 1500 years muslims have been killing eachother and have published tons of literature and not able to convince any one. If they would have put 5% of this passion into sciences. Things would have been better
    23 hours ago · Like · 1

    Shaheryar Ali strongly insist on not indulging in these useless debates n ploemics
    23 hours ago · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur ‎// And how do you know that? Scientific literature? //
    No sir ,In the well published Takfir’s on the streets and walls of Karachi. More commonly on the you tube ,social media and tweeter rantings.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri Of course. Unscientific literature cannot be cited to prove a fact. You cited an opinion which remains contested.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Shaheryar Ali Ya rub wu na samghe the na samghe hein meri baat—- de or dil unko jo na de mugh ko zuba’n or!!!
    23 hours ago · Like · 1

    Zulfiqar Ali I don’t think it matter as current pathetic conditions of Muslims is concerned whether he was Muslim or not.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass Shia attack Jawad Hikmatyaar Haider Shah Akif Khan
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass tum sab mazhabi aek jesey jahil aur pagal ho.. koi ferq nahin perta shia ho, wahabi ho, deobandi ho , barelv ho ya kuch bhi ho..
    23 hours ago · Like · 3

    Ahmad Waqass ‎Asim Raza can tell better if hadis is scientific or not.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Zulfiqar Ali ‎Ahmad Waqass: faith is not “rational” by definition.
    23 hours ago · Like · 2

    Ahmad Waqass Abu Talib key muslman ya kafir honey sey islam ko ferq nahin perta. Ali to aek aam Sahabi aur nabi key damaad they. nabi key apney waldein bhi muslman nahn they.. Islam ko in chezoun sey ferq nahin perta.
    23 hours ago · Edited · Like

    Zulfiqar Ali I am not sure but Bukhari is big liar and non sense.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass who isn’t Zulfiqar Ali?
    23 hours ago · Like

    Shaheryar Ali Ye mubahis issi liye fazooliyaat hein ke irrationality ki jitni rational analysis ki jaaye utni irrationality berhti he
    23 hours ago · Unlike · 2

    Ahmad Waqass kabhi Jahil shia kisi writer ko paker letey hain, Kabhi barelvi, kabhi deobandi, kabhi wahabi aur kabhi ahmadi … sab key sab aek naya hangama khara ker detey hain ager koi in key jhootey aqaid key khilaf kisi qism ka sach bayan ker dey.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Shaheryar Ali Leave aside Mr Abu Talib or Mr Abdullah jo muslmaan the ya naahi the. Ye jo declared Musalmaan hein aj ke Osama bin Laden se le kur Syed Munawar Hassan tuk. Kiya fakhur ki baat bach gayi he musalmaan hoone mein? Move forward people not backward
    23 hours ago · Like · 1

    Irfan Qadri ‎Shaheryar Ali Could not agree more. Here “rationalist” people are distributing fatwas of kufr based on dubious literature.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass ‎Irfan Qadri what scientific literature do you follow? heresy of infallible imams who were themselves agnostic?
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass ‎Irfan Qadri sahib 4 lafz type kerney sey computer per banda samjhdar nahin ho jata.
    I told you earlier that you don’t even know the basic defintion of taakfiri and most probably never read about other sects. and here you are issuing fatwas of ignorance and labeling everyone disagreeing with you as takfiri.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri Personally I don’t treat religious sources of any sect as scientific including Sunni, Shia or whoever. Least interested I am in distributing fatwas of kufr based on dubious literature.
    23 hours ago · Edited · Like

    Shaheryar Ali jaata karen G. Kiya ye rationalist society ke mubahis hein. Koi Higgs Boson pur baat karen, koi paradox of knowability pur. Folk role ke mubahis le kur hum beth gaye hein
    23 hours ago · Unlike · 3

    Ahmad Waqass How do you decide is Islam was ever revealed to arabs?
    or Abdulmutlib was muslim ? Irfan Qadri
    Do you get revelation or read in peer reviewed journals?
    23 hours ago · Edited · Like

    Ahmad Waqass stop man ab aur hansa bhi nahin ja raha tumhari bachgana baroun per
    23 hours ago · Like

    Zulfiqar Ali Sorry i meant to say ‘ i am not sure about others but…”
    23 hours ago · Like

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur How could you account a religion on the scientific evidence? Take a time frame and see who was muslim and who wasn’t.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass ‎Shaheryar Ali Mager Pakistaniyn ka mashgala hai .. irrelevant aur fazool mozuaat per bilwaja ghantun waqt zaya kerna aur mazhab us main top priority hai inki.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Zulfiqar Ali Sherry . remember Ibne Insha who said that west goes to ‘khala’ like moon etc that is their khalai program. “hum bait ul khala ban laeN tto ye hummarra khalai program hai”
    23 hours ago · Like · 3

    Ahmad Waqass ‎Mir Max Abbas Talpur religion as per claims of adherent is universal and is equally valid for all times. you don’t need to consider ‘Time and Space’.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Shaheryar Ali ajji yaha aj tuk Ghalib ke diwaan ka text fix nahi ho paya ap chain of narration ki baat karte hein. Its just a scandal. My point is even taking up these issues is wastage of time
    23 hours ago · Like · 2

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur But where it will lead us from here?
    Are we still humans ?
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass We are muslims not humans. It will take another thousand years to become humans.
    23 hours ago · Like · 1

    Shaheryar Ali Allama sahi keh gaye though ironic to quote Alama from this perspective lolz. Haqeqat khurafaat mein kho gayi— ye ummet “rivayaat” me kho gayi.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Zulfiqar Ali Some fun facts about Mr. Bukhari,Muslims claim that Sahih bukhari is the most authentic book after quran. I worte this on other forum before so forgive some narrative.

    Bukhari claims to have
    • Collected 600000 (6 lac)ahadees.
    • Met 1080 people in that process.
    • Vetted every Hadith twice.
    • Travelled thousands of miles. (25k?)
    • Sat in Haram and before deciding whether to put every single Hadees in final selection, he did Ghussul (bath), then two rakaat Nafal. Then he decided about final selection.
    • He also claims to have written “Taareekhul-Kabeer” under moon light. Imagine ink, drying, and no paper like today. Also think about sand storms of Madina. What kind of ‘rational’ person would not use the sunlight and prefer moonlight.
    • He also wrote short biographies of hundreds of narrators.
    We do not know who was the final editor of Sahih Bukhari (selection of 7k + so called ahadees).Some say it was Bukhari himself and some say it was his student Imam Muslim,

    How much time one needs to do all of the above. How much hide/parchment one would have needed to write. How to carry all that?
    Yet he did before the age of 33.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri What kind of humanity do we hope to preach when all we are interested in is Takfir (apostatizing) of others. Innocent people are being killed by Takfiris in Pakistan on daily basis because of hate literature found in Hadith books.
    23 hours ago · Edited · Like

    Zulfiqar Ali Many a times it is said that if we do not believe him, then we can’t say prayer? One answer could be how prayer was said before him. Other could be that the form of Prayer as we know today may not be as important as we think.
    At least some of Ahadees are same as Neo-Platonic teachings, Confucius etc. Was it because of Silk Road??
    Some additions/corrections
    • He was meticulous to claim that he met 1080 people in process of collection of hadees. I had said thousands.
    He collected 6 lacs ahadees (ignoring that he verified one hadees from at least 2 sources) .Then last Ravi on average knew six thousand Ahadees. Compare this with number of ahadees by great jurist Imam Abu Hanifa.
    One Example;
    • There is a famous philosophical dictum of Aristotle. He says that best way to follow is ‘Via Media’ (middle road).
    • Does something come to mind?
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass ‎Irfan Qadri I asked you a question ?
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass I can show you 1000 videos and writings of Shias declaring sever shias, barelvis , deobandis, and all non twelver shias as non muslim. As I said you all are crazy and play this drama for your benefit. You guys aren’t concerned about humanity or peace.
    23 hours ago · Like · 1

    Shaheryar Ali well Zulfi i have not reviewed religion since a decade now. But criticism on Bokhari’s methodology has been noted even within his contemporaries. For example Muslim wrote a lengthy and damaging criticism as well as Al Haqim whose book is Mustadrik. Western Islamicists have given a very good criticism of hadees methodology
    23 hours ago · Unlike · 2

    Zulfiqar Ali FUNNY! First watch this;

    First of all the land is wooded for sheep tendering. It is also stony. It also is full for wild life. Monkeys preferred sleeping on ground and not on trees. How safe it wa…
    See More

    Stoning a monkey to death : روایت بندریا کو سنگسار کرنے کی
    http://www.youtube.com
    Why Islamists (Shias Sunnis and maybe others too) believe in stoning to death? I…
    See More
    23 hours ago · Like

    Shaheryar Ali acha choren bus , time na waste karen, koi paper perh lein ;-)
    23 hours ago · Like

    Zulfiqar Ali hahah
    23 hours ago · Like

    Irfan Qadri ach ji. buss ji chaha zara Pakistani rationalists aur progressives ki haqeeqat jaan loon :)
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass ‎Irfan Qadri I asked
    “How do you decide is Islam was ever revealed to arabs?
    or Abdulmutlib was muslim ? ”
    as you said
    “Irfan Qadri Personally I don’t treat religious sources of any sect as scientific including Sunni, Shia or whoever. Least interested I am in distributing fatwas of kufr based on dubious literature.

    23 hours ago · Edited · Like

    Irfan Qadri That’s off topic. My contention remains with the Takfiri attitude and Takfiri fatwas. That too based on dubious literature. Period.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass HAHA knew that
    22 hours ago · Edited · Like

    Asim Raza ‎Ahmad Waqass!!! There are few points in this post and then the comments under this discussion. First, if the point is to rise about so many fatawas of Takfir among sunni and shia, then one has to know some basic things about Fatwa. First, everyone is not allowed to pass fatwa. Second, an appropriate qualification and study level is required to pass a fatwa. Third, there are certain things that are asked to see before giving a fatwa. Unfortunately, in our times, people pass their opinions without any proper awareness and worse to this is that either some of the listeners/readers/followers treat those opinions as fatawas or the person himself thinks of him final authority on the issue. In simple sense, so many fatawas that are being passed in a fashion have not been fruitful for the society because certain things are not looked before. Sorry that i am not going into details of ‘certain things’ but technically things like ‘place’, ‘local people’s practices’, ‘previous examples of fatawas if there are any’ and etc are also considered among these ‘certain things’. No one affirms such a trend of Takfiri Fatawas as they are given currently. Next to this, if we come to ‘dubious status of religious literature’ as it was said then on what grounds that literature is called dubious. Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadiri (in the posted video) built an emotional case mentioning a Sahabi’s name and principle of Ahadith’s Riwayat. But, he did not cite any reference that which book of Ahadith he is referring too. There are known poetic couplets written by Abu Talib in the praise of ALLAH’s Apostle. Furthermore, you have already presented two Ahadiths. Personally, i am also aware of these two in this regard. Third point that was raised about parents of the ALLAH’s Apostle and even grand father probably whether they were Muslims or not and they did not become Christians too before Islam. Similarly, a point was asked about ALLAH’s Apostle’s religious status before the age of 40 and the first revelation. To answr this, i will recommend everyone to go to Seerat books instead of rushing into futile debate without any background knowledge. I don’t know how many of us here have read at least 3-4 basic books of Seerat that are referred as standard reference books in our latest written books on Seerat. For example, Shah Wali Ullah’s book “Madarij-un-Nabuwwat”, Ibn Hisham, Ibn Kasir, Ibn Sa’ad and etc. List of other modern books is separate. In the end, i will say that at few times you did a good job to bring guys into discussion on the topic but it was useless effort. I personally think that this forum is not suitable for such discussions because of our limited background of the basic texts and unavailability of the required attitude for discussion.
    22 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass ‎Asim Raza Thanks for quick response. Our friend Irfan Qadri needs to know if hadith or other religious literature can be regarded as authentic or scientific?
    22 hours ago · Like

    Asim Raza ‎Ahmad Waqass i don’t know on which basis he can say them non-authentic and non-scientific. There are proper principles like scientific principles that are followed by Ahadith Scholars.
    10 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass May be you can share some.
    10 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass He is upset by some ahadith which tell that parents of Prophet, Father of Ali RA etc were infidels.
    10 hours ago · Like

    Ahmad Waqass and generally rejects hadith and other religious literature incl fiqh calling it fabricated and non scientific. May be we can find some peer reviewed journal for him :P
    10 hours ago · Like

    Asim Raza I am sorry that i may not be able to share sufficient details in this regard. But the simplest way to get rid of such an issue is to consult some proper religious scholars instead of discussing it here. Technically, period between Jesus and ALLAH’s Apostle in Makkah is around 500 years and it is called “Fitrat-ul-Wahi”. Treatment of people within this period is discussed under different contexts. Historical records of Arab show us few things that can aid him to get rid of such a pain if he wants too.
    10 hours ago · Like · 1

    Mir Max Abbas Talpur Proper Religious Scholars ….>>> HAHAHAHA rofl

  17. Faiq
    September 20, 2012

    The Middle East Media Research Institute, or Memri, was founded in 1998 in Washington by Yigal Carmon, a former Israeli government adviser on counterterrorism, “to bridge the language gap between the Middle East and the West by monitoring, translating and studying Arab, Iranian, Urdu and Pashtu media, schoolbooks, and religious sermons.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/opinion/friedman-look-in-your-mirror.html?smid=tw-share

  18. brock obama
    October 26, 2012

    tarek fatah is retard u think he got dropped in his early ages political spoon needs to get a mind of his own and stop being a bihtc

  19. Nufee
    December 30, 2012

    December 2012 has been a busy month for this hate monger. Someone sent me a link to a 50 page report on Tarek Fatah and his hate mongering just for the month of December 2012.

    Check it out….its a devastating report on his incitement of hatred and it uses his own words and tweets to prove it! We are mostly unaware of how many people are making a career out of promoting hatred, terrorism and strife.

    Tarek Fatah’s incitement of hatred and terrorism from Canada @tarekfatah #tarekfatahbigot

    http://k4catalyst.wordpress.com/

  20. Rahat Ali Changezi
    May 1, 2013

    Evidence of racist and anti-Shia sectarian views of Saudi-indoctrinated bigot Tarek Fatah, please spread widely. http://pakistanblogzine.wordpress.com/tag/tarek-fatah/ https://worldshiaforum.wordpress.com/tag/tarek-fatah/ http://criticalppp.com/archives/tag/tarek-fatah

  21. davewmills.blogspot.fr
    May 28, 2013

    Fantastic beat ! I would like to apprentice at the same time as you amend your site, how could i subscribe for a weblog web site?
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  22. H-Pakistani
    December 28, 2013

    No one listens to tariq fatah,99.99% of Pakistan don,t even knows Mr,t fat.

  23. Pingback: Deobandi terrorists of ASWJ-LeJ and Taliban slaughtering Shia Muslims to commemorate their Eid | World Shia Forum

  24. admin
    October 11, 2014

    Pakistani Canadian “liberal” Tarek Fatah’s views about Ahmadiyya Muslims – See more at: http://lubpak.com/archives/316151

    We condemn Tarek Fatah’s stereotyping and incitement to murder of Shiite Muslims – by Mohsin Jaffer https://worldshiaforum.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/we-condemn-tarek-fatahs-stereotyping-and-incitement-to-murder-of-shiite-muslims-by-mohsin-jaffer/

    When Takfiri Tarek Fatah declared the Holy Prophet’s beloved uncle an infidel – by Irfan Qadri
    https://worldshiaforum.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/tarek-fatah-apostatizes-prophet-muhammads-beloved-uncle-by-irfan-qadri/

    The Shia is not your enemy either, Tarek Fatah – by Hasnain Khan
    http://pakistanblogzine.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/the-shia-is-not-your-enemy-either-tarek-fatah-by-hasnain-khan/

    Do you believe I suffer from ShiaPhobia? – by Tarek Fatah
    https://pakistanblogzine.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/racist-and-sectarian-shias-of-bahrain-by-tarek-fatah/

    Is Tarek Fatah really a friend of Jews? – Pakistan Blogzine – See more at: http://lubpak.com/archives/319673

  25. shikilla
    October 19, 2014

    Unrepentant Shi’a, May Allaah (jalla wa’alaa) dispatch you all quickly from this world by the hands of the Islamic State and all Mujaahideen. You are rafidha(rejectors) of The Islamic principles of the Oneness of Allaah(azza wajal) and try to lie your way into being accepted by way of taqiyya?

    You are crazed zealots, remnants of the Persian Majoos who could not accept that Islam overpowered you where no other empire could. This was Allaa’h’s(ta’aala’s) humiliation on you and He can do it to you again and again. So fear Allaah and beg Him to remove you from misguidance, and repent from neglecting Allaah’s command to you to not join others as god’s(partners) to Him.

  26. Pingback: Tarek Fatah aiding ISIS, Al Qaeda and Taliban-ASWJ in Shia massacres? | World Shia Forum

  27. Pingback: Tarek Fatah aiding ISIS, Al Qaeda and Taliban-ASWJ in Shia massacres? | ShiaPAC

  28. Pingback: How pseudo progressives routinely hide the Salafi and Deobandi belief system of ISIS and the Taliban | ShiaPAC

  29. Pingback: Suicide Bombers Kill 15 People Outside Pakistani Churches? | Republic Day: Nawaz Sharif Asks Barack Obama To Raise Kashmir Issue.

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This entry was posted on August 29, 2012 by in Shia Persecution, WSF and tagged , .
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